This is how Irrational and Infuriating Lin Haters are: A Deconstruction of a Discourse with a Lin Hater

Jeff, a reader of this blog, posted in the Comments section of a previous post a stat which shows the Houston Rockets win more games when Jeremy Lin plays more minutes. Well, I took these stats and used them to post a comment on Chris Baldwin’s latest article on Jeremy Lin.

I just wanted to share with you the back-and-forth that ensued with a Lin Hater who initially appeared to me as borderline well-meaning individual. Normally, when I see a comment that’s clearly a Lin-Hater comment, I just ignore it and move one, since it’s useless to try to have any sort of discussion with such individuals. But this particular individual seemed somewhat well-meaning at first, since he raised the question that the stats may “possibly” be loaded. I can understand such questions, therefore, I gave him the benefited of the doubt and responded to his comment. Without further ado, here’s my little back-and-forth with a Lin Hater. I’ll italicize the back-and-forth exchanges and bold my commentary to these comments, as well as put them in brackets below to hopefully mitigate confusion.


This is your best article, Chris! Well done. I especially like how you point out McHale’s hypocrisy, as well as McHale’s failure to admit he plays any role in Lin’s struggles with Houston. McHale is like some character from Catch-22. It baffles me that he is actually a coach of ANY basketball team, let alone an NBA team, let alone one that is supposedly contender. Also, McHale’s bias against Lin and his favoritism of certain players, such as Beverley, is so completely irrational and defies all data. I’m baffled and disturbed by his incompetence and his strong bias against one of his own players!

One of the readers of my blog (, Jeff, shared a great stat in the comments to a recent article I posted: Houston Rockets are now 12-4 (75%) when Jeremy Lin plays more than 32 mins and just 19-13 (59%) when he plays less than 32 mins. I can go on and on about why Lin is so important to not just this team, but ANY team, but this stat, alone, should cause EVERYONE, not just Lin fans, to question McHale’s irrational treatment of Lin and McHale heavy bias against Lin. When McHale is FORCED to play Lin and FORCED to let Lin do his thing, rather than irrationally tuck one of the best play makers in a corner, Rockets beat great teams like the Spurs. McHale, unfortunately, will never get this through his thick skull.

TellItLikeItIs JeremyLintelligence
Your stat is possibly loaded.  Is it possible that the games in which Lin played more than 32 minutes were against easier teams?
[As you can see, TellItLikeItIs’s comments (I’ll use the pronoun “he” henceforth) appear to be innocent enough. It’s perfectly reasonable to raise the question of the “possibility” that the stats might be loaded. So I responded in kind.]
JeremyLintelligence TellItLikeItIs
Like I said, I didn’t do the stats. One of my readers did. If I did the stats, I’d break it down for you. But lets see, with Lin starting (and playing 32+ minutes) and Harden out of the lineup, the Rockets did something they hadn’t done since 1989! They beat the Spurs and the Mavericks in back-to-back nights. So, there’s that. I would say the Spurs are a pretty good team. And Dallas aint half bad.

TellItLikeItIs JeremyLintelligence
First, you heavily rely on someone else’s state in your argument.  When I argue that it’s probably biased, you say that’s not your fault. can’t claim that the stat is kosher simply because you weren’t the one to calculate it.  If you’re going to heavily rely on it in your argument, you’ve got confirm it’s clean.  (Btw, it’s probably not clean.)

Second, you use the last 2 games as another example to support your thesis. Well, you can’t just use 2 instances that you select out of many as conclusive proof.  That’s cherry picking.  Just as bad in a statistical argument as the former.

Hey, I’m not saying your conclusion is wrong.  You might be right and Lin does actually improve the performance of this team.  But, your argument doesn’t prove it.

[What started as a seemingly innocent question by TellItLikeItIs quickly turned combative. I’ve found that people are pretty reckless when interpreting what others they disagree with are trying to convey, which is one of the reasons I tend to stay away from commenting on forums altogether. Also, I don’t have much time to go on forums these days. People in forums also tend to twist what you say to support their arguments. It’s a battle of WHO’S right or wrong, versus WHAT’S right or wrong. I’m someone who cares much more about WHAT’S right or wrong. I would say that I don’t care about WHO’S right or wrong, but I know that I, too, have an ego like everyone else. I try my hardest to keep my ego in check when it doesn’t serve my purpose of learning the truth, but I know this is not always possible.

Although, one of the things I’m good at–my superpower if you will–is fighting fair. Because I’m someone who hates injustice and unfairness, I try my hardest not to contribute to any sort of injustice or unfairness. So when I’m in an argument, I try to be as fair as I can with the points that I make. For example, I will try my hardest to stay away from making points that I know to not be true, even though they’ll support my argument or make the other person wrong. I try to stay away from WHO’S right or wrong altogether in my responses and focus more on the WHAT. So when someone says something I don’t believe to be true, I don’t say THEY are wrong. I focus on the content of what they say and parse out why the content is incorrect from my perspective. This is one of the tools I use to keep the ego at bay as much as possible in an argument, but, of course, it often doesn’t work, because people are too strongly identified with their ego. Most people behave unconsciously and are not conscious of their ego. They are so completely identified with their ego that their ego has become them and they’re constantly in a state of reacting to one stimulus after another without a sense of the consciousness that underlies all of it. But that’s a whole other subject.

Anyway, his “you say that’s not your fault.” line in his comments above is an example of such twisting of words and reckless misinterpretation. No where in my comments did I use the word “fault”. I merely wanted to correct an error in his comment. In his first comment, he wrote “your stat”. So I just wanted to correct his inaccurate statement and point out that they are stats from Jeff, a reader of this blog, not stats that I came up with. I always try to make sure proper credit is given. And as a result of this fact, I conveyed another fact, which is that because the stats are not ones that I developed, I don’t have the luxury of combing through them to answer his initial question of whether or not the wins were against easy teams without putting in a lot of work that I’m unwilling to put in to answer HIS question.

As a gesture of good faith I went on to say that if I were the one to come up with the stats, I’d go through the trouble of parsing them out to confirm or deny the question he raised about the stats. But he twisted this statement as me somehow evading his question or “passing the buck”. Again, I don’t know why I AM left with the responsibility of providing evidence to support HIS recklessly subjective claims. The stats are what they are. If YOU don’t believe what the stats say, then it is YOUR responsibility to provide evidence to support why those stats are misleading.

Also, as another gesture of good faith, I pulled up the two most recent games as two of the 12 games that I can recall easily off the top of my head as games in which Lin played 32+ minutes and the Rockets won. After all, he’s the one who asked to parse out the level of competitiveness of those teams in which Lin played 32+ minutes. So when I tried to accommodate his request as best as I could, since I’m not about to go and comb through the data to “do his homework for him”, he twists this as me cherry picking data. This is missing the intention of what I was trying to do. My intention is to satisfy his curiosity (actually in his case it’s disingenuous curiosity (BTW I HATE DISINGENUOUSNESS OF ANY KIND WITH A PASSION!)) as best as I could without having to comb through the data. If the two most recent games had been against two easy teams, I would have pulled them up as examples, as well.

After reading this comment, I realized I had encountered a Lin Hater. They’re never satisfied with any evidence you give them. When you pull up data that shows Lin benefits the Rockets, they claim–without any evidence–that the data is no good and want YOU to dig deeper into the data to prove THEIR point why the data is no good. Then when you do your best to dig into the data, they twist it into you pulling one over them and accuse you of cherry picking data. It’s exhausting to reason with Lin Haters and this is why I just ignore their comments. But since this individual’s initial comments were somewhat well-meaning, although I was plenty suspicious, I fell into the trap and had to finish what I started.

I did like what he said in the last paragraph of his second comment about how I might be right. At least that shows a level of open-mindedness. But I’m afraid that’s just another one of those comments that are disguised as well-meaning. Anyway, I responded with what I thought were well-reasoned and well-meaning retorts to his comment.]

JeremyLintelligence TellItLikeItIs
In your first comment, you used the word “possibly” as in “your stats are possibly loaded.” When I saw that, I was very understanding and that’s why I responded in the way that I did. But when I saw your second comment and you used the word “probably” I see that as being reckless. To me, it’s reckless to claim a stat is “probably” loaded out of thin air without  providing any evidence to support your contention. And it’s interesting that you would automatically assume that the stats are loaded, rather than accept what the stats say: that when Lin plays more minutes, Houston wins more games. I know you’re going to say it’s smart to question the validity of stats and parse them out. And that’s fine, but the next time you claim a stat is loaded, provide evidence, rather than just simply stating that they are probably loaded. As if the mere fact of you stating that the stat is probably loaded makes it so.

The stats are what they are. Without providing any evidence, you raise the fact that the stats are probably loaded based on your own biases. The burden of proof is on you to show that the stats are loaded. I’m not the one claiming the stats are loaded.

I only pointed out those two games as a favor to your request, because they just happened. I can’t help that they supported my argument. Since I didn’t develop the stats I don’t have the luxury of combing through them and parsing out all the different games, so I just picked the two recent ones, because I can remember them off the top of my head. And since I’m not about to go through the stats to do your homework for you, I just simply chose the two most recent games as mere examples. I didn’t say they were conclusive proof or anything. I just said, “so there’s that.”

Believe me, as a Lin fan, I know all about the perils of cherry picking stats. I wrote about this in a very long post in my blog:….

Lin haters love to cherry pick that ONE Miami game in which Lin got “exposed” during Linsanity.

[When I read what other people write, I pay careful attention to each key word since I try and pay attention to the key words I write, although, there are times when I do pick the wrong word unintentionally. So when I read his initial comment I noted to myself that he used the word “possibly”, which is a word that expresses a healthy amount of doubt. So I gave him the benefit of the doubt in my first response to his comment. Had I known he meant “probably” when he wrote “possibly” I would have been much harsher in my reply. In fact, in my initial response to his comment, I almost wrote that I’m glad he used the word “possibly”. Well, I’m glad I didn’t praise him for his careful diction.

Since I try to be very careful in choosing my words to convey the truth of what I’m trying to say, I assume that others act in a similar fashion. Maybe I shouldn’t assume this in the future, because I find that people tend to be pretty careless about the words that they use or they use words to hide their true intentions. This turned out to be the case with TellItLikeItIs, because in his second comment, “possibly”, turned into “probably” and that’s when I knew that his first comment was just a mere disguise, so I responded in kind.

I fought every urge I had to say WTF?! Because I just didn’t know how he could raise the question about the “cleanness” of the stat out of thin air and then expect ME to provide evidence to support HIS reckless assumption that the data is probably “loaded”. But instead of saying WTF, I chose to take the hard route and painstakingly reason with him, KNOWING that my attempt at reason would fall on deaf ears. As expected, I got the usual response from someone who had just gotten his precious ego bruised and is just desperately holding on to their need to be right with their last pinky on the edge of the Cliff of I’m-Right-and-You’re-Wrong.]

TellItLikeItIs JeremyLintelligence
I am guessing that you’re still in high school and haven’t taken any courses like statistics or logical reasoning because your arguments are completely illogical and one-sided.  You truly are the epitome of a delusional LOF.

I’m implore you to go back and read what you wrote.  Do you see how one-sided you are?  How you see everything through one-colored lens?

I’m going to just address those 2 points, hoping you’ll see how crazy you sound.

1.  You use those 2 games as proof of Lin’s ability and then counter, “I can’t help that they supported my argument … I just picked the two recent ones.”  Huh?  Of course, you can help it.  You picked them!  And, obviously, the only reason you picked them is because they helped your argument!  Duh!

2. The stat which you rely on and showed a higher win percentage for the Rocket when Harden was out.  It’s actually a common figure that many Lin fans cite on many sites.  Unfortunately, it’s already been shown by many other posters that the games that Harden did not play in were in fact easier games.

But, let’s forget for a moment whether that’s true or not.  Instead let’s concentrate on HOW you argue. a. You state that the burden is on me to show it’s loaded?  What?! b. You state that I automatically assumed that they are loaded?  What??! c. You state it’s reckless to interchange possible with probably?  What?!! d. You state the mere fact of my stating something doesn’t make it so?!?  What?!

The points you bring up are ones of a completely illogical and irrational person.  They are borderline retarded. It’s crazy talk.  I’m serious.

[I think his comment pretty much speaks for itself. It’s the usual name-calling subjective statements that you get from these Lin Haters. He failed to “listen” to anything I wrote in my reasoned reply. His response is full the usual twisting of words and blatant misinterpretation. He still failed to understand that me picking the two most recent games is a gesture of good faith for his request for me, mind you, to dig into the data because he suspects the data are loaded since he doesn’t like what they say.

In his point number 2 he casually says “it’s already been shown by many other posters that the games that Harden did not play in were in fact easier games” as if that’s sufficient evidence. If he has seen others show that the data is loaded, why not cut and paste their argument, at the very least? The irony is that he’s railing at me for using someone else’s STATS to support a claim I make and somehow it’s totally sufficient for him to make a SUBJECTIVE STATEMENT to support his claim: “it’s already been shown by many other posters that the games that Harden did not play in were in fact easier games”.

And do I even need to mention his blatant disregard for the two recent games that I mentioned in my comments to him (Spurs and Mavs) in which Harden didn’t start?! How come he conveniently experiences amnesia about these games when they’re hard data that go completely against his casual subjective statement. And before he accuses me of cherry picking again, Harden hasn’t been out of the lineup that many games, so two games out of however handful many games Harden has been out is somewhat significant. And those are just two random games. But, of course, we’ll have to dig through the data to find out whether or not his subjective statement is true. But are you kidding me with this shit?! The amount of irony and hypocrisy expressed in his point number 2 is baffling to me! I’m fighting every urge I have to call him every name in the book.

That’s the other thing that kills me about these Lin Haters. They expect you to bend over backwards to give them stats, facts and data that they’ll approve of, but they feel entitled to pass off subjective statements as rock-solid evidence. I mean, WTF?! I fought every urge to just say WTF?! and call him crazy. Because what he wrote was the musings of someone who ran out of any arguments but still unwilling to let go of his desperate need to be right. So I responded in kind.]

JeremyLintelligence TellItLikeItIs
Okay. So I guess we’re resorting to name calling, since we can’t actually formulate cogent arguments. And, wow! Big points for creativity. I mean, where did you come up with the whole, “you’re still in high school” bit? Wow, it’s not like I haven’t seen that comment on every single forum. And I see we also resort to the old, simply repeating “what?!” brilliant bit of retort. Well done! Now don’t I feel like a fool.

Well, I don’t play such games. I provided very logical arguments. Obviously, you think my arguments are one-sided because they don’t comport with what you believe. It’s called RAS (reticular activating system). It’s a mechanism that we all have which filters out things that we don’t believe. I have it. You have it. We all have it. And when two opposing minds come together both sides are blinded to the other side’s argument.

So no matter how logical my arguments are, you’ll see them as illogical. And I’d say the same for me, except “what?!” to me are not logical arguments.

You know, I’m just as baffled by your comment as you are by mine. Except I fight my urge to name call, because name calling is the easy way out. Just saying someone is irrational or crazy doesn’t make it so. Just as saying a stat is probably loaded doesn’t make it so.

I won’t be able to convey to you how irrational your statements are, because you’ve shut yourself from hearing what I have to say. But let me give it one more try. I don’t know what country you live in, but in the US we believe in the concept of innocent until proven guilty. So these stats that show when Lin plays more minutes, Rockets win more games are “innocent” until proven guilty. What you’ve done is come to a courtroom and claim that these stats are probably guilty, just because they “look” suspicious to you. And then on top of this, you are asking the lawyer on the other side (i.e., me) to provide evidence for you why the stats are guilty. This is why the burden of proof is on you. And, believe me, I’m fighting every urge I have to name call, because this is as irrational as irrational gets. (Note: I provided an argument why it’s irrational. I didn’t just keep repeating “what?!”, which is really what I want to do.)

The only reason why my arguments seem illogical to you is because you’ve shut yourself off from listening to the argument, because your precious ego has been bruised and your need to be right is too strong.

Anyway, I’ll just leave our discussions where they’re at, before they devolve into something in which I do not partake. I’ll just leave you with this. Our need to be right blinds us from the truth, sometimes. I’m vulnerable to this as are you.

FYI, I majored in Economics from Yale University. I took a course on Econometrics.

[Nothing much more to add here. I said all I wanted to say to this individual.]

TellItLikeItIs JeremyLintelligence
How well did you do in the Econometrics class?

[Well, at least it didn’t devolve further into more name-calling, so I’ll just leave this individual with an unanswered question. Because I want no more back and forth from an individual who isn’t open-minded to the possibility that he may be wrong. But you know, it’s really hard to admit when you’re wrong. And to be clear, I’m not saying that he’s wrong in raising the question of whether or not the data is loaded. I think that’s all well and good. And I’m not saying that they aren’t loaded, since I don’t have the luxury of sifting through the data.  I also can’t agree that they are loaded, because I don’t have the luxury of sifting through the data.

He had every right to question the data. But when he assumes that the data is “probably” loaded out of thin air, that’s wrong. And that’s what I mean when I say he isn’t open-minded to the possibility that he may be wrong. Assuming data is loaded out of thin air without providing sufficient proof and, moreover, putting the burden on the other person to provide the evidence for your subjective assumption is wrong. Plain and simple.

But it’s hard to admit when we’re wrong, because our egos are a big part of us. So I can understand and empathize with his need to be right. Meditation is a way of letting go of the ego. And that’s partly why I meditate. I don’t want to let go of the ego completely, because the “ego”, as it is defined it in the West, at least, is healthy for some situations. Although, when I use the term ego, it’s a much bigger idea than how the term “ego” is casually thrown around in everyday conversation. But that’s a whole other discussion.

Anyway, I also have this need to be right. But I try to keep it in check as much as I can and at least I’m conscious of this need to be right. However, just because I can empathize with this individual’s need to be right, it doesn’t mean that I need to continue wasting my precious time trying to talk to a brick wall. In truth, I don’t remember EXACTLY what I got in this class as I don’t remember what I got in most of my classes at Yale. That was ages ago! That said, I’m POSITIVE it wasn’t anything less than a “B+”. It could have even been an “A” for all I know.]

Well, hope you all enjoyed a deconstruction of a typical discourse with a Lin Hater. I just wanted to share this as an example of just one of many many such discussions I’ve had with Lin Haters in the past. They pretty much follow this same anatomy. This discussion is not any more or any less frustrating/infuriating than others I’ve had and the many that I’m sure you’ve all had. And I’m sure non-Lin fans face a similar level of frustration when confronted with certain Lin Only Fans.

This discourse, unfortunately, is something that happens in all forums on every subject. Our need to be right and our strong identification with our ego cause us to be blinded by things that don’t feed and nourish that ego. This is something we all need to be cognizant of and if more of us are conscious of this, the world would be a much better place. This is just one of the many reasons why I’m such a big proponent of meditation.

About JLintel

NOTE: On June 11, 2016 I switched the comments section to Disqus's platform. As a result, all comments from previous platform have disappeared from all articles.
  • MrPingPong

    Sorry about your close encounter with a LOH, Philosopher. It is safe to say that from the point of view of LOHs, all LOFs are delusional. So here we are, DLOFs! Yeah, meditation helps.

    Speaking of meditation, the brain is the most important organ in a human and yet is the least understood. If one thinks about it, there are all kinds of thoughts going on in the brain at any instant in time. The thoughts are the movements of the brain so to speak. Meditation in my view is an attempt to control these movements. What can be gained from that? Dunno, perhaps a better understanding of oneself and a higher/deeper awareness of the surrounding? For me, I try to think of good thoughts in order to help me feel better. I have no high hope for enlightenment or anything of that nature.

    BTW, if you did not make an A in your Econometrics class, you have failed as an Asian nerd! Just kidding, of course… 🙂 I remember I made an A- in one of my graduate Math classes at Berkeley and felt so bad, but at the same time I felt relieved because, damn that was a hard course! Anybody remembers what Lin’s Harvard GPA is?

    • Ha ha, MrPingPong. You’re right, anything below an “A” is unacceptable! Man, you can still remember a grade you got in college? It sounds like it was a traumatic experience. I barely remember what classes I took. Ha ha. College, as well as my past, is all a blur to me.

      Meditation is a long discussion. Go to my other blog if you’re interested in delving further, although, I haven’t had time to write in that blog, lately. It’s not so much about controlling movements in your brain. It’s about being more intimately connected with consciousness. As least understood as the brain is, consciousness is even less understood–especially in the West. Eckhart Tolle in his book, The Power of Now, provides one of the best explanations of consciousness and the ego that I’ve encountered.

      • MrPingPong

        It was graduate school. And yes, it was traumatic; that’s why I still remember it till this day. 🙂

        I’ll venture over to your meditation blog some time, may be during the NBA off-season. I have to dig out video tapes of a famous Berkeley Professor of Philosophy discussing artificial intelligence and consciousness that I have stashed away somewhere. I don’t remember his name. He is probably deceased now. Oh yeah, lots of interesting things to ponder and marvel…

  • Jeff

    Oh man. I’m sorry that you had to go through that from my little stat. Sounded painful. Don’t mind people like that. My statistics, I assure you, are extremely mathematical. I went through Jeremy’s game log and counted every game he played more than 32 minutes in. That’s all. It took me no more than 3 minutes. Haha. So please don’t waste more than even 3 seconds on people like that. We are pro-Lin, but our thoughts and judgement are analytical – not rules by emotional bias. A win is a win and a loss is a loss. No matter how you spin it, the simple stat is clear. Houston wins more games when Jeremy plays and plays more than 32 minutes. I can plug the stats into excel and figure out the Rocket’s win percentage against teams with good records when playing more than 32 minutes, but I believe every team can be dangerous. The Knicks were pretty rubbish judging by their record before Linsanity, but we all know what happened afterwards 🙂

    • MrPingPong

      I agree that on any given night, any team can be dangerous. If we argue about wins over “easier” teams then we should discuss losses over “easier” teams as well. The Rockets have lost to several teams with inferior records already. Are the Grizz an “easier” team? And there is no telling how many more inferior teams will beat them this season, the way Lin is being jerked around.

      If my memory serves me correctly, Lin got to play heavy min only when Harden or Bev was out, right? Well, Harden will be back tomorrow night against the Cavs. Lin will be reduced to playing meaningless minutes again. Sad story…

      • FYI, here’s a couple of replies I got on Twitter.

        @JimNationwide noted that Lin is 13-4 record when playing over 31 mins. 7 wins against teams over .500 w 2 > Spur

        Even though this gives Lin a better record, I think I like your 32+ min as the cutoff mark, because Lin really should be playing 32+ minutes a game. Although, as a back-up, I’m not sure realistically how many more games he’ll play 32+ minutes. So not sure. I’ll let you figure out what cutt off point makes the most sense.

        @dragonwinglee noted a discrepancy in the win loss in the < =32 min, although he gets the same percentage. He tweeted: "% right but I get 12-4 for > 32min 75%, 13-9 < =32 min 59%. Some good wins DAL, TOR SAS x2, MEM with Lin > 32 min”

        He has a 13-9 record for 32 minutes or below, but still gets 59%. So not sure what to make of that.

    • Of course, no need to apologize whatsoever, Jeff! I’ve gotten good mileage from your stats and I thank you for providing them. I am an intuitive person and I feel I have a pretty well-honed intuition for things in general. So I can gauge pretty well Lin’s situation with the Rockets without stats. But it’s nice to have the stats–especially when it comes to conveying my beliefs to others.

      Keep doing your thing and I would much appreciate it if you could continue to give us updates every now and then if you have the time.

      I totally agree with you that a win is a win and that’s actually the true argument against this LOH, but I knew that if I had used that argument, he would have felt that he’s right to question the stats.

      Also, intuitively, I KNEW that the majority of games are against competitive opponents, so I KNEW the stats are clean. But, again, if I said that, he would have countered that I have no basis to claim the stats are clean.

      When confronted with someone who’s so blinded and closed-minded, I am extremely careful about the things that I say, because I know they would twist and blatantly misinterpret even the most logical, unbiased, rational things. That’s the thing about such individuals, they always think your intentions are ill. They never give you the benefit of the doubt. That’s why that LOH kept accusing me of cherry picking data, even though I explained to him a couple of times how I was just giving him what he wanted in the best way that I knew how. I think they don’t give other people the benefit of the doubt partly because their intentions are often not pure, so they assume others act in the same manner. And I don’t blame them for this, because I think most people who don’t fight fair act in this manner. This is what I mean about how I fight fair and how I regard it as a “superpower” of mine, because it’s not often easy to do. You have to fight the urge and the need to be right and focus on the truth. But it’s a delicate balancing act, because sometimes the truth makes you sound biased or makes you sound like you have a need to be right so they won’t accept the truth because they are suspicious of your intentions. This is why most conflicts don’t get resolved. It’s very difficult to get others who are diametrically opposed to you, to see what you see.

      When confronted with such individuals, I know that they’d pummel at the slightest hint of biasness or illogic so I walk on egg shells with what I say and how I say them. You can’t have a normal conversation with them and speak the truth. You have to speak to them like a lawyer. And that’s what I tend to do when in these situations. I anticipate every argument they could possibly make for a statement I want to make and judge whether or not I want to make those statements anyway, based on the “collateral” damage that may ensue or figure out another way of conveying the same idea that is more air tight. This is why my article on Lin Haters and Doubters ended up being so long and why my video on McHale is a Lin doubter is so long. It’s exhausting making those videos and writing those posts, because my intuition tells me that I’m right, but I have to figure out the long long long route for them to figure out for themselves what I’ve already concluded, based on my intuition. I often wish I could just tell people to just TRUST ME. But, of course, I know I don’t have that luxury. So I have to build up to what I want to say painstakingly. Brick by brick.

  • Forthelin

    Wow, I will just have to say you have the patience of a saint. I do not even attempt to go on those forums, unless I’m looking to blow out some steam and actually look forward to some low-brow mud-slinging fun. In the end, you just sense that Lin haters have something eerily, primordially mean deeply entrenched inside their psyche that just doesn’t jibe with the good things in the world and they really need to be pitied after being verbally pummeled senseless. It is the world of the masochist who needs physical lashings to be able to experience a sensation akin to the human feelings he lacks and craves. Really, like drugged cockroaches, Lin haters can be a source of endless entertainment if taken for what they really are.

    • Ha ha. thanks, Forthelin. I guess all that meditation is paying off. Ha ha. Although, I would say that that’s just my nature. I’ve always been very patient, even before meditation.

      Interesting observation about their primordial meanness. I can see that. This is also why I fight my urge to name call and go off on these individuals, because I feel like that’s giving them what they want. So, instead, I try to confront their negative energy with neutrality.

      I do agree that Lin haters can be a source of endless entertainment. Ha ha. I was definitely entertained by this TellItLikeItIs’s complete hypocrisy and back-asswords thought process as well as his desperate need to be right.

      Lin Hater comments just pass me by, these days. And I just laugh them off, because they’re so insane. Because of meditation, I see things almost like NEO in the Matrix now. Like people who have road rage or people who insult complete strangers on forums. Or when I get insulted by a compete stranger. It just doesn’t even register for me. It’s all just noise. I just see them as being silly and I don’t even react. With TellitLikeItIs, I replied to his seemingly well-intentioned question and so I had to finish what I started. But when I got his third comment that had all those insults they didn’t even register for me. They are just gibberish from an infant’s mouth. Just a bunch of noise.

  • pistolpete

    The guy probably is a hero on clutchfans. I was banned for life twice from clutchfans for praising Lin and criticizing McHale. Being banned from clutchfans is like a badge of honor to me. I may change my name from pistolpete to “Banned Twice”!

    • Ha ha, pistolpete. That is an honor!

    • Akito

      Praising Lin on CF? Oh man that’s an automatic ban, brother.

      Let’s all keep fighting the good fight.

      • Right on, brother. Let’s all keep fighting the good fight.

  • dr.b

    as an aside…’s usual that the best players on a team are usually the hardest workers…….magic,bird mj,kobe Duncan ,parker,etc,etc…..on the rockets the laziest player is harden and the dumbest is howard…so ,in my opinion it doesn’t look good….the perfect game for harden tonight is a triple double….assists,rebounds,steals /charges taken together……they can make up his points so easily its silly…..btw..dereck harper /16 years in nba….color man for mavs—loved lins game the other night….the best players break there ass and lead….

    • Thanks, dr.b., for the info on Dereck Harper! I LOVED the Mavs commentators. They were so objective about the game it was unbelievable–especially the individual who I now know to be Dereck Harper (thanks to you). I was a fan of Harper’s game back in the day.

      I really wanted to do a write up for the Mavs game, but haven’t had a chance and now the moment has passed somewhat. But one of the things I wanted to mention was how awesome the color man was for the Mavs. He did love Lin’s game, but more importantly, he GETS Lin’s game.

      The other thing I wanted to mention is that I’ve noticed that Beverley has stopped passing to Lin lately and it was blatantly obvious in the Mavs game. There was one particular possession in transition in the second quarter where Beverley had parsons to his left and Lin to his right. Parsons had at least 2 defenders all over him and Lin was completely open near the basket. I saw Beverley hesitate for an instant, because he was about to pass to Lin, but at the very last instant passed instead to Parsons. Then Parsons lost the ball, resulting in a turnover. So what should have been easy layup by Lin turned into a turnover by the Rockets because Beverley didn’t want to pass to Lin. This is very disturbing, because I’ve always liked Beverley. We’ll see if this continues. But I can’t think of ONE SINGLE TIME that Beverley passed it to Lin in that Mavs game, which is ridiculous, because you’d think he would have like a casual pass to Lin around the arc. Now, I did miss most of the third quarter, so maybe it happened in that quarter. But I did observe that Mavs game pretty closely and I was paying pretty close attention to whether or not Beverley would pass to Lin, because that’s been on my mind. And I didn’t see it one time. And that one possession in transition was so blatant, because that was a no-brainer pass to Lin and he didn’t do it.

      Yeah, Harden has been a disappointment to me. I had high hopes for him when he joined the team, because I saw him as an unselfish player who’s all about wining. But now I see him as a player who has a huge ego who just cares about putting up big points and being a hero. Whether or not he contributes SIGNIFICANTLY to wins is debatable for a superstar of his caliber. Again, I’m not saying he doesn’t contribute to wins, but I am saying that a player of his vaulted “reputation” should contribute more significantly to wins. Harden doesn’t do the things that win games. He does the things that make him a superstar. Let me put it this way, the Rockets winning games is sometimes just a fortunate outcome of Harden doing things that make him a “superstar”. Whereas a player like Lin is all about doing things to win games and the sometimes the fortunate outcome of Lin doing things to win games is Lin having “superstar” stats.

  • ashley

    JLin just made history! With the win against the Cavaliers today, he became the 4th in NBA history to have a triple double (15–11–10) under 30 minutes. Lin played only 29 minutes today, so how efficient he was! Again, after the team lost their 19-point lead in the third quarter, he was put back to help the team regain their lead.

    It was exciting that at the end of the 4th quarter the crowd was cheering for Lin to get the ball so he could get his 10th assist, and Howard finished it! Lin thanked Harden for allowing him to handle the ball and thanked God as he always has. Harden interpreted it very well; he said it’s hard to do as he used to come off the bench but had never done that, and that JLin is talented enough to do it and he did it. Despite not being fully utilized, Lin broke records both as a Knicks and a Rocket, giving his Asian fans the best Chinese New Year gift!

    • I missed the game, Ashley. Where’d you get that info about him being the 4th in NBA history to have triple double in under 30 minutes. Lin keeps making history.

  • ashley

    I have some correction to make: Lin is the 4th NBA player coming off the bench to get the record and the first Rocket ever to do that. I first read about it firsthand on Yahoo sports news in Chinese, and here are reports in English:

    There are starters who have done it before. Here you may check out the stats:

    Mr. Philosopher, I feel bad that you had to go through that debate with an irrational person, who I think might not be a hater but certainly a doubter. You fought well, though might have written too long a text spending too much time on it. But that’s your style–always being so reasonable and patient.

    I feel that Lin played smoothly this game and naturally racked up the stats within 29 min and 10 seconds’ playing time, which was a lot less than Beverley’s 41 minutes. Beverley scored 0 points (0-5) but hustled hard and played very unselfishly, assisting Lin in an easy layup. He got his record too–he “became the first NBA player with at least 10 rebounds, eight assists, five steals (his career-high) without scoring since steals became an official NBA stat in 1973-74”.

    • ashley

      Oops, I posted the same link twice. Regarding the player stats of triple double, Mr. Pingpong has posted the link.

      • MrPingPong

        I missed most the game last night due to New Year Celebration family activities. Only caught bits and pieces of it.

        I found the stats link on Clutchfans of all places! 🙂 Yes, there are LOFs on Clutchfans who do not get banned; I guess because they are “senior” members. Someone there also states that Lin is the 9th player to come off the bench and score a Triple D. I cannot verify this claim. I will not be surprised if Lin detractors will attempt to dismiss Lin’s achievement by saying that this Triple D is against an “easier” team. 🙂

        Now, back to New Year Celebration! Happy New Year again to ALL! 🙂

        • MrPingPong

          OK, I created a query on and here is the result:

          There are only three guys coming off the bench who scored a triple D in 29 min or less. And Lin is one of them! 🙂

          • ashley

            Yeah, if using 29 min as a mark, then Lin would be the third bench player with the achievement in NBA history. It would also exclude Clyde Drexler from Trail Blazers, who in 1986 , played 30 minutes against the Phoenix to have a triple double, according to Yahoo Sports news (in Chinese). So, Clyde, the notorious racist announcer (called out by some Lin fans) , was once an accomplished NBA player, right?

          • Thanks for the stats, MrPingPong! I made good use of them.

      • I was a huge Drexler fan back in the day, Ashley. He was quite the player. As a commentator…well, that’s a whole other story as we all know.

    • Thanks, ashley, for the links and postgame write up!

  • pistolpete

    Lin had a triple double? BENCH HIM!

    – Morey

  • pistolpete

    I’m starting to think that Morey has more to do with benching Lin than McHale. Orders from the boss.. I’d be interested to know how other people on this blog feel about this. It might explain how they let Jeremy run the offense for awhile but they keep going back to Harden ball-hogging.

    • I didn’t see Lin’s triple-double game, so can’t comment on what happened. I definitely think McHale is the main culprit. I’ve always felt Morey respects Lin’s game, because I can’t see how a stat head like he is would not respect Lin’s game. Morey is also smart and so I give him the benefit of the doubt when it comes to Lin. I don’t see how a smart basketball mind could not respect Lin’s game. I don’t see McHale as being that intelligent and that analytical. He’s more of a no nonsense blue-collar type who just kind of believes in whatever he believes in and that’s that. So he fits the psychological type of someone who wouldn’t be a fan of Lin or would not get Lin’s game, etc.

      Also, I don’t think Morey can directly tell McHale how to coach and what players to use. He’d have to sort of approach it indirectly and I’m sure we’ve all experienced this in our own work relations. It’s the idea of not stepping on someone’s toes. It’s the idea of staying in your lane. I think this is why Morey traded away their Power Forward lineup last season to FORCE McHale to play TJones and DMo. The General Manager’s overall job is to acquire the talent. The coach is tasked with figuring out how to use the talent. Of course, this relationship is different for every GM and Coach. But I think McHale is the type to just stay in his lane and he’s the type to be irked if someone is getting in his lane. He’s said this a number of times during press conferences about “staying in your lane”.

      But, you know, it’s all a guessing game here. So I have no more claim to be right about my thoughts on McHale, apart from what I’ve been able to cull together than anyone else is. We all just make our own educated guesses and that’s the best we can do, since we don’t have the luxury of knowing what goes on behind the scenes.

  • Pingback: Jeremy Lin Keeps Making History: Triple-Double in 29:11 Minutes Off the Bench | Jeremy Lintel()

  • pistolpete

    I think you’re right philosopher in that Morey would be stepping over the line in directly ordering McHale about how much to play people. Comments made by Morey however could have an influence. I remember last year when they wer on a long losing streak after winning several games and McHale had the team watch videos of both their winning and losing streaks. It was apparent that when they were winning Jeremy was touching the ball a lot more than when they were losing. So for several games Jeremy handled the ball more and they started winning again. Gradually he started to handle the ball less though and Harden ISO’s took over. This management of the team seems bizarre especially since they all saw on the videos what worked and what didn’t work. Why would they go back to a losing formula unless there was an outside influence on McHale’s decisions?

    • I think it just comes down to the McFale/Lin Dynamics that I’m sure you’re familiar with. This is the way I’ve found to explain the bizarre and irrational usage of Lin. But, who knows, I could be totally off base. Although the team is mismanaged–especially when it comes to Lin, it is also mismanaged as a whole in terms of the management of players’ minutes. So I think, overall, McHale is just an inept coach who really doesn’t know what he’s doing. This is most evident during end-of-game situations. His “plays” are either laughable or non-existent.

  • 7iger

    You just wasted your time with a LOH troll. TellItLikeItIs was a known troll from Haven’t see him there for a while now not sure if he been banned or just got tired trolling.

    • Ha ha. Good to know. Thanks, 7iger.