My Perspective on Trolls and How Jeremy Lin Fans and Non-Lin Fans can Co-Exist Productively

I wrote a very long comment in the most recent article posted by “old & in the way” that I’m more or less re-posting here for those who may have missed the comment.

It’s been brought to my attention that there’s been some trolling on this site. One of the things I like about this site is that, with only a few exceptions, the discourse on this site has been very respectful and sincere, as well as productive. I welcome differing points of views, because I think having a broad perspective on things is healthy. I do acknowledge that Lin fans, like all fans, have inherent biases and I include myself in that company. At the same time, I try hard to listen when someone brings up a different perspective. But I only do so when that someone does so sincerely and respectfully. And I welcome that very much. It’s awesome for me when I see someone else articulate their views in a thorough and well thought out manner and when it is a view that is different from mine, that is a wonderful thing, because it may offer me an opportunity to add to my perspective on the same subject. If I hear things that I already know, then that doesn’t help me grow as a person, even though it may make me feel good that someone else shares my views.

I also have a lot of respect for non-Lin fans who come on this site and share their perspective without resorting to childish personal attacks and abusive language. I do understand that some Lin fans can be extreme (there are extremist segments in any group) and that it’s a lot to deal with. I understand this, because the Lin Haters are also extreme and a lot to deal with. So I really respect non-Lin fans who comes here and manage to disagree without resorting to childish, meaningless, fruitless, unproductive personal attacks. That shows maturity and character. I have no respect for those who aren’t able to do this, because they only show their immaturity, as well as ignorance. To me, such individuals are a dime a dozen and a complete waste of my time and I feel sorry for them, because they lack a lot of worthwhile qualities.

What I don’t appreciate is when “trolls” (I’m not trying to name-call, I’m just using a popular term as a shorthand for communication purposes) come in here and write offensive things (especially racially offensive things, such as “Lin would obviously be better building railroads than playing basketball.”) and use abusive language, that gets us nowhere and is a big problem with society as a whole. Things like this detract from any type of information sharing. It detracts from any type of engagement and any possibility of exchanging different ideas. These people rob the human race of growth and prosperity. And I don’t think it’s an exaggeration to say that the root of this type of behavior is responsible for the terrorism that is, unfortunately, our new reality today.

What people don’t realize is that every action we take reflects who we are no matter how small that action may be. Our whole self emanates through our every action. So while some may think that making anonymous racist comments and abusing others anonymously online isn’t a big deal (because everybody does it, right?), that seemingly small action is a reflection of who we are at our core. So if you do this, you have to ask yourself, is this who you want to be? Are you capable of more than that or is that all you’re willing to let yourself be capable of? In short, are you being the best version of yourself in this moment?

The unfortunate truth is, a lot of people only see through their very narrow lens and ignore anything else that doesn’t comport with their very narrow views. There’s a thing called “Reticular Activating System” that we all have that makes us blind to things that don’t support our beliefs. You have to work hard and consciously to fight against this normal urge to only see the things that comport with your beliefs. But that’s a whole other discussion.

I guess all I’m trying to say is that we can all be better than devolving to exchanging personal attacks and resorting to racially charged insults. If we sincerely want to get our points across, then we would be better served in our aim if we do so without personal attacks and offensive remarks–especially ones that are racially charged. You do yourself no favors by smudging otherwise good points and arguments with hateful remarks. Also, you will find that your voice will have a better chance of being heard by the other side if you approach them with respect and treat them with dignity. Unfortunately, people let their hate get the better of them and they let their hate get in the way of productive discourse. They let their hate get in the way of their own personal growth. There’s enough racism in the world, we don’t need to bring that shit in here. It’s counterproductive and only sets us back as a people.

Although it may make your Ego (I’m using “Ego” differently here than how most people use this term) feel good and mighty and smart to put others down, giving into the hate is actually weakness and makes you a dime a dozen. Nothing special. It’s easy to give into the hate and let your Ego run amok. It takes great strength to be in touch with your consciousness so you don’t give into the hate and let your Ego control all your actions, while you do it’s bidding like a zombie. But that’s a whole other discussion.

Those who disagree with articles or comments posted on this blog will find that they will be met with respect if they do so sincerely and respectfully. I can say this because I find the regulars on this site to be very respectful and a joy to converse with. Contrary to the myth that all Lin fans think alike. We don’t. In fact, I find myself alone in many of my perspectives on Lin, but have had very fruitful discourses with other Lin fans here who disagree with me.

So if anyone wants to come here and share a different perspective and disagree, I think that’s great In fact, in my ideal world, I would have more non-Lin fans here. But I think non-Lin fans don’t feel welcome here, which is unfortunate and very much unintended. All I ask is that people disagree sincerely and respectfully. But if you come in here and launch a bunch of personal attacks, using abusive language and racial slurs, I will consider you a troll. And what I do with trolls is just ignore them. In fact, if I wasn’t made aware of the trolling situation by someone else on this site, I wouldn’t have even noticed that racist comment I cited earlier about Lin. To me, what comes out of the mouths of trolls are just gibberish from the mouths of babes. It doesn’t even register to me as actual articulation, actual words.

I know everyone handles trolls in their own way, but as for me, I have way too much to do with my time than give trolls the respect of responding to them. Also, I like to let their comments stand on their own as a representation of their ignorance and lack of maturity. No need for me to get in the way of them showing how much of an ass they are. I understand the urge people have to want those racist comments deleted, etc. But the way I see it, I would be doing the trolls a favor by removing evidence of their ignorance and immaturity, as well as their utter lack of character. So at least for now, I will leave those racist comments in tact and let them stand on their own as a representation of ignorance, immaturity and lack of character.

Also, we’re all adults here so I would like to treat everyone as adults as much as possible, despite how much anyone wants to behave as a child. I ain’t your mommy and I sure’s hell ain’t your damn baby sitter! By now, you know what you should and shouldn’t do. You know what’s right or wrong. If you choose to behave in a way that is in disharmony with universal principles and your own consciousness of which you’re completely unaware, then that’s on you.

Everyone is free to deal with trolls in their own way and accept the consequences. But if you are looking for my perspective, then I would suggest in the future you can just send the tolls a link to this article, rather than engage in useless, unproductive and childish back and forth. Just a suggestion if it helps.

To the regular readers on this site, apologies that I haven’t written or commented on this site in a while. But I’m very happy to see that this site continues to prosper without me. Unfortunately, I will likely only visit here sporadically in the future and will likely just remain in the background as a passive observer for now. Hopefully, this trolling situation is contained, but if any of you have any thoughts you’d like to share with me either here or via email (by going to “Contact”) about the trolling situation here, please do so. The more input I have, the better informed I will be at curtailing the trolling situation and containing it so it doesn’t get out of hand. Bye for now.

About JLintel

NOTE: On June 11, 2016 I switched the comments section to Disqus's platform. As a result, all comments from previous platform have disappeared from all articles.
  • MrPingPong

    It’s good that you repost your long response to the troll issue as a stand alone article, Philosopher.

    I also have the impression that rational non-Lin fans don’t feel welcome here and thus do not post here that much. Somehow Jeremy Lin has become one of the most polarizing sports figure. Psychologists and sociologists may some day conduct some serious studies on this Linomenon! OK, forgive the Lin pun! 🙂

    Tonight will be the battle of the BS’s in La la land. One BS purposely tanks while the other BS tries to stop his players from tanking! As of this writing, there are 187 comments on the Denver Stiffs’ Game Preview, while SilverScreenAndRoll’s Game Preview could only draw 18 comments. Lakers fans seem to have lost interest I think. What gives? 🙂

    • Forthelin

      Terrific repost. I too am very struck by the amount of trolling that rolls around anything Lin. My first reaction is that there must be an enormous amount of jealousy and hate out there that I’ve been naïve about. Asians, first the Japanese, now the Chinese are taking over everything, and basketball and hockey are the last uninvaded bastions of competition. Then, I was a little struck by the unrealistic expectations of some Lin fans who anointed him a HOFer. Somewhere in between toils a hardworking NBA player who is trying valiantly to work through stereotypes, stereotype threats, and a culture that devalues his manhood and his skills. Jeremy Lin is still that Jimmy Stewart who believes in teamwork and reciprocity rather than streetball one on one and trashtalking. I guess that might be threatening to someone, though I can’t understand why. It’s like trashing Andre Miller or Aron Afflalo because they don’t have tattoos and don’t do the crip walk. It’s easy to respond back in the same hateful way, but I’ve made my first new years resolution in maybe a decade, and that’s to be less petty. And, to be honest, basketball and all sports are pretty petty compared to what we face everyday, so hate away, it’s just water off a duck’s back.

      • Thanks Forthelin. Great point about how maybe we shouldn’t take sports too much to heart, and thus, let hateful comments affect us too much. I think with Lin, it’s bigger than just basketball. But I think sometimes we all get a little too carried away with that notion.

        I think part of the discord is that for non-Lin fans, it’s just basketball and they don’t see Lin as being a big deal. But for Lin fans, Lin’s emergence is bigger than basketball. So non-Lin fans get annoyed at Lin fans for making too big of a deal with Lin, etc. But the other issue is that non-Lin fans extrapolate from a minority extreme Lin fan base as representative of all Lin fans. So a lot of non-Lin fans often interpret the comments of all Lin fans through this extreme lens. And that’s where personal attacks come into play and no one listens to anyone else but themselves. As a result, everyone is stuck in their own ways. Anyway, no need to go on and on.

        Thanks for bringing up that great point. At the end of the day, it is just basketball.

    • Thanks, MrPingPong! I added a few things to the previous comment throughout this article.

      Yeah, it’s unfortunate that Lin has become such a polarizing figure. But I guess that’s not so surprising, given how historic his emergence is. I have a lot to say on the matter and could probably write a book about it. But no time and willingness to do so.

      I can understand the loss of interest in Lakers for Lakers fans, as I’ve also lost interest myself in all of the shenanigans going on in La La Land. I’ve always had a baseless hate for LA so this is just more fodder for that hate. No offense to those who live there. Ha ha.

  • MrPingPong

    Hello Lin fans/non-fans, just making conversation here…

    I watched the Nuggs game last night, well, at least when Lin was on the court. Lin was aggressive attacking the basket in the first half and as a result was quite effective. Somehow, he changed his way completely in the second half and seemed content to just passing the ball, making a few bad passes that resulted in TO’s along the way. I’m not saying anything new here, but Lin is most effective when he attacks the basket, don’t you think?

    OK, so we move on to the Blazers tonight. The Dame, LMA and company are well rested, ready to blaze away the lost Lakers. Let’s hope Lin will get his 20 min. Lin will do well if given the opportunity to play meaningful minutes.

    Letzzz Gooo,JL17!

  • Mixing sports with the anonymity of the internet is the perfect breeding ground for trolls. They will be silenced when JLin gets a supportive coach again to do his thing again. In the meantime, we’ll have to learn patience and perseverance just like JLin is learning.

    • old & in the way

      Dear Charlie:

      I’m afraid, Sir, you are very correct. Patience and perseverance it is. Go, JLin. Shut the fucks up even if just for one day. But thank you nevertheless for whatever it is that you can give. Patience and perseverance. Ciao.

  • MrPingPong

    In case you haven’t read it, this is hot of the press by Howard Beck, a noted NBA writer who used to write for the New York Time.

    • Thanks for the link, MrPingPong. Good to know that Howard Beck is still keeping tabs. I’m hoping that Lin will listen to me once and for all and give Anthony Robbins a call this off-season to really just hit the reset button. But I know it’ll never happen. Oh well, it’s his life. Wish he had people around him who know more about this stuff, but I get the sense that he doesn’t.

      He still relies solely on his faith, which is fine. But in my personal opinion, it’s not enough.The combination of this season and his time with McHale has to be pretty traumatic, psychologically. I know people may think I’m exaggerating, but for Lin to say in that article that this is the worst he’s felt since the time he thought he was going to be out of the league for good, all of this has clearly taken a toll on him. And I think he pretty much said the same thing, more or less, about his time with the Rockets in his sermon. And I don’t think this is Lin playing the victim or him being melodramatic. I imagine myself in his position and I would feel the same way. And that’s why I say he needs the counsel of an Anthony Robbins or at least someone who understands the psyche and consciousness and all that jazz. I just don’t think Lin has the tools to really explore what he’s been through.

      Regardless of all this, lets hope he finds himself at least in a neutral situation next season. At this point, I’m not even asking for a positive situation, because that’s asking too much.

  • TheTruthHurts

    I can appreciate your position about the racism and I will gladly stop. Especially since it gave Old&Irrelevant a way to ignore my actual arguments and just focus on that. But I feel like a lot of the sentiments around here about why Lin doesn’t produce the way you guys want becomes quite anti-black. So it offends me and I thought I’d give him a taste of his own medicine. Saying Ronnie Price only starts because he and BS are both black is racist and comes from racial bias. But because I want to be able to point out these hypocrisies without giving Old&Senile an out, I will gladly choose better words going forward. You have handled this with grace and class that I never anticipated seeing after my reddit experiences with Lin fans.

    • You have also handled this with grace and class, as well. And I respect that. It takes a big person to respond in the way you did. At least that’s how I feel. Others may not agree and that’s fine. I really appreciate you coming back and saying what you said. It really helps clear the air.

      My wish for this site is for Lin fans and non-Lin fans to be free to disagree with one another, but do so in a constructive manner. And my thinking is that as long as we disagree in this way, then hopefully we may be able to get the person on the other side to see a little bit of what we see. I don’t expect that anyone is going to be fully converted to the other side, but I do hope that we’ll be able to at least see where the person on the other side is coming from.

      I think you’re a recent reader to this site so you may not be as familiar with it. I do think this place is unique in that there’s very little personal attacks. I’ve been very happy, in fact, with how the comments are very in depth here, rather than one sentence jabs and such. Even non-regulars come here and post very in-depth insights and I actually learn a lot from a lot of the comments here. Feel free to check out some of the other article under “Featured Posts” in the sidebar.

      • Skyfall

        I’m sorry JLintel, I just thought you gotta do better than this.

        You and your fellow big Jeremy fans specially the 5 regulars will have to be more receptive to criticism against Jeremy in the sense of “agreeing to disagree”. Otherwise, any talks of hoping both parties meeting half way are cheap.

        You wrote this long post only after TheTruthHurts gave him a dose of his own medicine as he puts it, and you are about to be quick to refer him a troll while selectively, conveniently miss out your fellow Lin fans of being as guilty as they have.

        You said you hope opposing sides we’ll be able to at least see where they are coming from, I don’t see that happening until they get themselves away from being at the extreme.


        • old & in the way

          Skyfall you are not a victim here any more than we are. You are responsible for your own behavior and should acknowledge as much. I concede that I could have and maybe even should have been more tolerant of your critical perspective on Jeremy Lin’s career. However, you have responsibility here, too. You came to a website where there are almost exclusively people who appreciate Jeremy Lin for a myriad of personal and subjective reasons too numerous to list but we all know most of them or at least think we do. You came to this website to posit a completely opposite viewpoint from most of the people here. You do not offer any evidence, data or arguments to augment, support and prove the validity of your criticisms and you expect to be applauded? Which planet do you live on? That is not the planet I have been on for all of my life. On the planet I am on I would expect to be met with resistance if I were in your position. I would not expect to be applauded and embraced. But you did? Perhaps all we can do is agree to disagree and that I do. I agree to disagree with you. I am perfectly willing to leave it there as you have presented no evidence to convince me that Jeremy has not been victimized by bad luck, extreme bias and a very real racism that exists and has been referenced here on this website in multiple articles time and time again with real data, real evidence, real arguments and that is very well supported by all of this. At any rate you have not been victimized here by us any more than we have been victimized by you. It is a two-way street. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. I concede these points and you need to do the same. Whether you will or not is up to you. I think JLintel was as accommodating to you as a non-Lin fan as he could possibly have been. In fact he went much further than I would have gone. He bent over backwards to be accommodating to the perspective of non-Lin fans for which I think you should be thankful and grateful. But you say he didn’t concede enough. What exactly would be enough for you? Can you say? And is this his website or yours? Perhaps you should start your own website for non-Lin fans who want to criticize Jeremy Lin. That is not what I hope this website becomes. I want it to remain a website for people who mostly appreciate Jeremy Lin and understand the cultural and social obstacles with which he is confronted on a daily basis. If that is not what you want then maybe you need your own website. Think about it. It’s an idea that has merit and I AM NOT being facetious. I am being sincere. Maybe you need to begin your own website for people who share your perspective. Clearly I do not share your perspective and neither do most of the people who are already here as far as I can tell from feedback and comments. I agree to disagree with you but don’t really know where else this can ultimately go if anywhere. Please consider what I have written. I am trying to understand your position as well as I am capable of doing.

          • Thanks for this, “old and in the way”. Lots of great insights in here!

        • Skyfall, I hear what you are saying.

          People can interpret what I write any way they want. But I tried my best in this post to speak in generalities and not single any one out on either side. That’s why I include conditional statements such as “IF you come in here and launch a bunch of personal attacks, using abusive language and racial slurs, I will consider you a troll.” This is a conditional statement. I’m not accusing anyone specifically of doing this. I’m saying that if someone were to do this, then they would be considered a troll. I also hate using the word “troll”. But it’s a convenient shorthand for communication purposes. A placeholder, more or less.

          I only singled out that racist statement because it was specifically pointed out to me in private via emails, etc. If it hadn’t been pointed out to me, I wouldn’t have seen it, as I mentioned in my post. Also, that specific racist statement was a heinous one and I felt serves as a good example of statements that are uncalled for on this site. I consciously left out the name of the person who wrote that statement, because my intention isn’t to chastise THE PERSON who wrote it. It was to chastise THAT STATEMENT itself.

          I don’t know if you know this, but I haven’t been on this site in a little while and I also haven’t read many of the recent articles, as well as comments. So I can’t really speak to what’s been going on with all the comments. It’s why I made a very conscious effort to speak in generalities in THIS post. This post is meant to just be a guide on how we should ALL behave. Not just non-Lin fans, etc. I’m talking to the Lin fans on this site and everywhere else, as well. I’m even going beyond just Lin fans and non-Lin fans and talking about how we should all behave as human beings. If you interpreted the post as chastising only non-Lin fans, then the only thing I can do is say that it was not my intention at all. I can’t control how someone else interprets what I write. All I can say is that I actually made a very conscious effort not to chastise anyone specifically.

          Like I said in my post, I’d like to treat everyone here as adults. This means that I can’t control anyone else’s behavior, but my own. Now, I feel I’ve been very fair to you in the interactions we’ve had in the past. In fact, I recall even giving you props for your detailed comments in the past. I’m not sure if you remember that. I also came to your defense when others wanted you off this site. In fact, that’s the closest I’ve ever come to policing this site (which is something I don’t want to do) and I did that on your behalf.

          Even though I’m a Lin fan, that doesn’t mean I have control over the actions of every single Lin fan and I can have them behave exactly as I would behave. Everyone is an adult here and I don’t wish to have control over anyone’s actions. I don’t want to be a baby sitter on this site.

          Also, I’m as blinded by personal attacks by Lin Haters as I am by Lin fans. I just don’t waste my time reading any of it. So, while I have a vague sense of the unproductive interactions you’ve had with some of the commenters here, I have to be honest, I don’t read any of them. They’re just all gibberish to me, even if they come from Lin fans. It’s all the same. I don’t waste my time on any of that. So you MAY think I’m playing favorites or something because I don’t specifically chastise any of those commenters, that’s a misinterpretation on your part. The real reason why I ignore those comments is because those comments don’t even register to me–even if they come from Lin fans. And it’s also because I want to treat everyone on here like an adult so I want to avoid chastising anyone for their comment, unless it’s a comment addressed specifically to me. I think everyone is old enough here to fight there own battles. If personal attacks and such are launched specifically against me or against articles I’ve written, then I will address those specifically.

          Just so you really know I’m not playing favorites, do you recall me chastising any non-Lin fans for personal attacks that aren’t addressed specifically to me or to articles I’ve written? For example, have I ever chastised you for any of your comments here? No. To drive home my point even more, there were a lot of personal attacks (I went and read more comments after I was notified of the trolling situation) launched back and forth by non-Lin fans and Lin fans alike in the comments in the previous article. Did you see me getting involved in specifically chastising any of the commenters there? No. It’s because that’s just not what I want to get involved in. You are free to want me to run things differently on this site and police this site more and that’s fine. But I have too much to do with my life and so little time to do it that I can’t waste my time policing everyone’s personal attacks on here.

          Do I wish people (Lin fans and non-Lin fans on this site and elsewhere) behaved differently at times? Of course! But it’s just a wish on my part. I can’t control anyone’s actions and everyone is responsible for their own actions and everyone can fight there own battles on here. All I can control is my own actions and regarding that, if you can bring up anything specifically that I’ve done towards you that you have had a problem with, please do so now and I will address that specifically. If I have not wronged you in any way on this site, then I would appreciate it if you could acknowledge that. Because I feel like I’ve made a conscious effort to be accommodating to your comments on this site and so I don’t want others on here to misinterpret the comment you wrote above when you lumped me with others on this site. Again, I don’t have control over the actions of others.

          I love all the regulars on this site, as well as all the newbies on this site, but please don’t lump me up with anyone else. We are all our own people. We’re all responsible for our own actions and we are all individuals. We just happen to have at least ONE common interest, but that doesn’t mean someone else’s actions who shares a common interest with me should be attributed to my own actions. That doesn’t mean I’m responsible for someone else’s actions simply because we happen to just like watching the same person throw a ball in a hoop.

          Compared to most sites, though, there’s a lot less of that going on here than anywhere else. And I’m grateful for that.

          • Skyfall

            No JLintel, you are not hearing anything. You dodged away from the very essence of the theme of this long particular article which is mutual respect with some level of sincerity, non personal attacks, offensive childish language retorts, racial slur and insults..etc.

            I told you “your friends” were so guilty of the above mentioned spirits that you would like to advocate under this article. I’m not even talking to him but he feel compelled to come to me in his novel long reply with that inner antagonistic air yet completely missed everything you tried to get across. Yeah, you still thanked him for being insightful, WOW…just WOW.

            Do yourself some justice by going back over to the posts I made under article “collusion-coercion-subversion-a-conscious-effort-to-subjugate-jeremy-lins-nba-career”, all I ever wrote pertains to the deficiency of Jeremy and his undeserved hate caused by his extreme fans and most importantly I never disrespected any of you guys here with personal attacks of any kind, personal criticism or insult of any nature, not one single word or statements that hide some form of “side jabs”.

            1. skyfall on January 28, 2015 at 1:42 PM said:
            2. skyfall
            on January 30, 2015 at 9:58 AM said:—–This is in reply to Chirico saying I’m bashing Jeremy.
            3. skyfall on January 29, 2015 at 11:41 AM said:
            4. skyfall
            on January 30, 2015 at 7:19 AM said:—–A reply to Charlie Sun’s sarcastic jab at me.
            on January 30, 2015 at 6:15 PM said:——reply to poster Sage.

            ***Read how they reacted and made those reply against me!

            They even mocked at my username skyfall, some respectable friends of yours.

            I couldn’t care less of what you can or cant do to them, I wouldnt care how they approach me either. I’m simply pointing out the hypocrisy you are making yourself out of this. You are so blind to this irrational old man, he accused me of whatever behavior I had and must shoulder my own responsibility of barging into an exclusive fan site making opposite point of views! Under this particular article, it wasn’t even about the legitimacy and credibility of any criticism toward Jeremy’s game, Am I not right?

            Lastly I’m not calling you to police this site of yours, I’m not an idiot!!!

          • I’ll let what I wrote stand. I don’t think you’re hearing what I’m trying to say at all, either. So I’ll just leave it there. I did my best to explain myself, that’s all I can do.

            As for complimenting “old and away” for what he wrote in THAT PARTICULAR COMMENT of his. I stand by that. There are a lot of good insights in THAT PARTICULAR COMMENT. That’s my opinion. I’m free to express that.

            Besides, I didn’t specifically point out which were the things I found insightful, so I’m not sure which part you thought I thought was insightful and had a problem with. I think if you open up your mind you will find nuggets of his comment insightful, despite your differences.

            Somehow you took offense to me saying that “Old and away” made lots of insightful points in THAT PARTICULAR COMMENT. I think you may have extrapolated my complimenting him on THAT PARTICULAR COMMENT he made to me complimenting EVERYTHING “old and in the way” has written on this site. And I think that’s just you extrapolating and misinterpreting my intentions. Otherwise, I don’t get why my one line comment would offend you. I don’t get why him making insightful points in THAT PARTICULAR COMMENT somehow takes away from you. Again, I didn’t point out specifically what points “old and away” made that were insightful. So I’m not sure what you thought I thought was insightful. They could be different things and that’s maybe why you’re offended by it. I don’t know. But if you didn’t think ANY of the things “old and away” said in THAT PARTICULAR COMMENT to you were insightful, then I think you must have something against him that prevents you from interpreting what he says objectively. And maybe it goes both ways. Like I said, I don’t read a lot of the comments between you two, That’s your guy’s business. Everyone is responsible for their own actions on here.

            If you don’t want me to police things on here, then I don’t really get what you’re asking of me. Like I said in my previous comment, my post on Trolling was addressed to EVERYONE. Not just non-Lin fans. So I don’t know why you say I’m being hypocritical. I think you may be reading into my post more than what is there on the page. If you look at my post, I did not single out anyone. I would be a hypocrite if I reprimanded non-Lin fans and let Lin fans get away with personal attacks. But I don’t reprimand anyone. So I don’t see how that’s being hypocritical. I feel like I addressed that clearly in my previous response to you, but somehow you still accuse me of the same thing, so there’s nothing more I can say about this that will give you a different perspective on this matter.

            I think I’ve treated you with respect on here and have even given you props on your comments. To me what matters is what’s right not who’s right. I didn’t give “old and away” props above just because he’s a Lin fan. I gave him props because he said a lot of things I found insightful. I’m sorry if you didn’t find ANYTHING he said above insightful (I still can’t believe you didn’t find ANYTHING he said insightful. That’s a “WOW” to me.). But I did. And I’m not going to go out of my way to not acknowledge when I see something insightful, because I think it might offend you or anyone. Just like I didn’t shy away from giving props to your comments in the past.

            I really don’t get why you think I’m being hypocritical. I would be hypocritical if I’m calling for people to be respectful, yet I am the one launching personal attacks and such. But that’s not the case. I don’t launch personal attacks on here just to get a rise out of people. That’s not what I do. So I don’t know why you think I’m being hypocritical. I feel like I behave in a way that is in accord with what I wrote about in my post. I also said in my comment to you that everyone is responsible for their own actions. I don’t know how many ways I can express that. I feel like I have expressed that pretty clearly. In my previous comment, I told you to bring up any specific instances of how I have wronged you. So here’s your chance to do so. But you bring up comments between you and others on this site that have nothing to do with me. So I’m not sure what you want me to do with them, since you say you don’t want me to police the site. I am not responsible for what others write or how others behave.

            It’s pretty clear to me that we’re likely just running around in circles here. No one is really hearing anyone else, despite best efforts. So I’ll just leave it there. It’s these types of interactions that leave me pretty frustrated, I have to say. Because I feel like I went out of my way to really explain things, but still somehow am unable to penetrate whatever defenses you have up. It’s these types of interactions that keep me away from posting in forums and such, because it’s so time-consuming to try and explain things to someone else, since it’s always hard to know how people will interpret what you say, since it’s hard to really get inside everyone’s minds and know how they see the world, as much as I try to.

          • Skyfall

            Look JLintel, you’ve explained yourself clearly with this long article and I’m not misunderstanding you, that’s why I’m pointing out to you your friends clearly committed the exact opposite. How the hell could both side co-exist, as you wish it could, when what they have DONE were offensive for the other side(mine). I’M NOT ASKING YOU TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT, OK?

            He butted into our conversation by starting I’m the victim of my own behavior cause I came into an exclusive fan site with a complete different point of view. Then he proceeded in stating all those arguments regarding Lin’s situations blah blah blah…That he wants this site to remain blah blah blah…Am I an idiot not to understand the cultural and social indifferent stuffs? Now are those relevant to the points you want to put across in this article? Finally he addresses the issue of agreeing to disagree. Now what exactly are you talking about regarding insights that you compliment? That being said, am I not suppose to think you are agreeing to what he wrote?

            Are you following on these thoughts? You break down his novel long post into 3-4 concise paragraph/segments and see what’s insightful in it. OK fine, insightful or not, whatever. But still the main issue is whether or not they were the culprits of this theme article. The answer is yes, they were. You have treated me with respect, and I did too didn’t I. They can’t deny I didn’t resort to disrespectful retort of any kind towards them, the records will prove it.

            I’m bringing this to your attention simply because you made this article after what TheTruthHurts commented here. If you are telling the truth about somebody emailing you , then hell, it’s like THE THIEF SI SHOUTING THIEF,THERE’S A THIEF…

            JLintel, think about this, why Am I trying to show you what your friends have portrayed themselves in those instances, no matter how seldom it were.

    • Skyfall


      In case you didn’t know, try scrolling down on this feature post below and you’ll find what they did to me and how they went about it.

      “Collusion, Coercion & Subversion”…(A Conscious Effort To Subjugate Jeremy Lin’s NBA Career)
      Posted on January 25, 2015 by Phil Cicchi — 89 Comments ↓

      As much as they’ll deny it, actions speaks louder. This is an exclusive Jeremy fans site, only fans of Jeremy who speak kindly of him and praises each other are or will be accepted. Any poster that did otherwise is more likely than not, the same guy who name himself as Skyfall, great.

    • old & in the way

      TheTruthHurts you more than me. I will not allow you to use me as an excuse to justify your own racism. Criticizing Byron Scott for doing the obvious which is giving preferential treatment to a member of his own so-called race over another better player of a different so-called race does not in any way make me a racist. There are no data or stats which verify that Ron Price is a better defender than Jeremy Lin. In fact Lin has better defensive stats than Price. The so-called eye test that Byron Scott and other coaches claim to use is an invalid indicator and measurement of true defensive skills and performance. Two points of importance are that I have already stated that I do not believe in racial categories per se. I believe that they are artificial. I believe they are an imperial construct used to manipulate people and drive wedges between them. Genetically we are all virtually identical across all of the so-called races. This is elementary Genetics and elementary Sociology. Secondly criticizing Byron Scott does not make me a racist anymore than criticizing the state of Israel makes me anti-Semitic ignoring for the sake of this sick argument that Israelis are not Semites. It is rather the Palestinians who are Semites. But the only point I am trying to make here is that criticizing Coach Scott does not make me racist anymore than criticizing Israel even if you believe the nonsense about Jews being Semites makes me anti-Semitic. It is an invalid argument that is illogical among other things. I did nothing to justify your use of the hateful and racist comment that “Jeremy Lin would obviously be better suited to building railroads than playing basketball.” I accept no responsibility for your hateful, cruel and unintelligent comment. It stands on its own and you shall have difficulty washing it from your slate. It will follow you wherever you go. There is no justification for such verbiage and you most certainly can not hold me accountable for your own moral defaults. I have put no words in your mouth, Mr. TheTruthHurts you more than me.

      As far as your invalid criticisms of Jeremy Lin are concerned I have not avoided them. I already addressed them. They are all invalid in my opinion. I have seen them all already many, many times. You present no old or new evidence, data, information, stats or even arguments to support your criticisms. There was no substance to any of your criticisms and thus nothing to directly address. It was the same old stuff that has been debunked time after time after time in article after article after article on this very website as well as in MSM articles all over the internet and all over the print and television media, also.

      Which part of the definition of respect covers you calling me senile? This is your idea of being respectful? Please explain and make it good if you want me to respond to you respectfully which is my by-a-million-light-years preference. I don’t like name-calling. I don’t like circular arguments that eat up time but go nowhere. I have limited time to spend defending myself on this website. Nevertheless, if you attack me personally I will respond. But mutual respect is always my venue of choice. You have expressed that it is yours, too. I hope you mean it cause I don’t have time for anything else. Respect is a time-saver as well as a much better way to communicate. I know this. I know you know this. So lets just do it if we can. I am also willing to agree to disagree. That may ultimately be all we can do. I don’t know but I do know that I don’t like spending my days criticizing people I don’t even know and who don’t know me. Even if you were a clinical psychologist with twenty-five years experience you couldn’t learn enough about me from a few articles even with all the comments to be able to psychoanalyze me or to determine whether or not I was actually senile. It is simply another baseless and unsubstantiated claim that you haven’t proven and can’t back up. Unless senility has a new meaning and I’m the last to find out about it show me some respect and stop with the senile stuff. It is neither cute nor respectful. The online pseudonym is still “old & in the way.” It is not “old & senile.” I am not an old moron. I am simply old and we shall see how you like old when you get here if you are lucky enough to live as long as I have. And if this is some retaliation for the fact that I mess with the names of Byron Scott and Kevin McHale, I am hardly the only person who does so. It is hardly my personal issue. If you are going to be consistent then you may have to mess with the names of everyone who has ever posted here with just the exception of a few of you non-Lin fans. As I expressed to Skyfall respect is a two-way street. We need to meet on that street and as soon as possible. I grow weary of everything else.

      • TheTruthHurts

        Before I even continue reading the rest of what you wrote, what do you mean when you say “his own so-called race”. Do you not consider African Americans a race? You are the most racist person in this conversation. At least be a man and admit it like I did.

        • old & in the way

          Dear TheTruthHurts:

          I don’t like being at odds with anyone. I wish we could understand each other better. So let me explain again what I mean. I was not aware that you have admitted that you believe you are racist. I have not read all of your comments and perhaps you have not read all of mine as I have expressed this several times in the past. I believe that racial categories are artificial. I believe they are an imperial construct utilized to divide people who should be united. Genetically we are all virtually identical. We are all one. In this sense we are all brothers. You and I and everyone else. Physical differences between the so-called races are explained by climate, topography, geography and culture among other things. Thus peoples who have lived near the equator have darker complexions because their physiology produces more melanin to protect them from the sun’s harmful rays. People in northern location have lighter skin color because they produce less melanin. This is perhaps the simplest example to explain and so I use it. But other apparent physical differences can be explained in this same manner. Genetically speaking there are greater differences in some case between individuals within a given racial category than there are between individuals in different racial categories. I think that so-called racial categories are a socio-political phenomenon and not a genetic one. That is all I am saying. Having a different take on racial categories does not make me racist. Other issues may make me racist but this is not one of them. I do believe, also, that racism is a cultural phenomenon and so in that sense if the culture is racist and American culture is most assuredly racist then to one degree or another every individual in that culture is going to be racist. Yes…we are all flawed in that sense. And we are all racist at times to one degree or another. I have never said that I am any different than anyone else and I am not saying it now. I hope this may clarify things for you. I am neither happy nor proud of the fact that I have not communicate with you better than I have up to now. I would like to change this if we can. I don’t know if we can but I would like to try. I’m sure I will “shoot myself in the foot” many times before I get it right. But I want to try nevertheless. Though it will take both of us to do it. Gotta go. Ciao for now.

    • Gay Teng

      I always try to avoid arguing with an idiot or bigot because I firmly believe that all men are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Lie, Libertine, and the pursuit of Foolishness.

      TheTruthHurts, I have to give you some credits for publically admitting that you are a racist. This is a good step in the right direction. Now we can talk.

      I am also a firm believer in what Dr. Martin Luther King said in his famous “I Have a Dream” speech — I look to a day when people will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.

      So when we are arguing about Lin’s basketball skills, we should put his race aside, and only judge him by the statistics of his productions.

      Therefore, when next time you ever mention the word “truth” about Lin, please provide facts and/or data to back up your statement. Otherwise, it is nothing more than a piece of personal opinion. I believe that you can handle the truth, and the truth will set one free from personal beliefs, wishes, and biases.

      • old & in the way

        Dear Gary:

        Very well expressed and as always accompanied by a great and pertinent quote. How I wish we were living in a world that manifested Dr. King’s desire that “people be judged not by the color of their skin but the content of their character.” Indeed. Indeed. How I wish. Character seems under-valued too often in the modern not-so-modern/same-old-same-old scheme of things. Later, my dear friend. Later.

        • Gary (the Oracle) Teng

          Dear old & in the way,

          Yes! numbers don’t lie. But people do lie with numbers all the time.

          Just look at the government published monthly unemployment rate and inflation index, then you know what I mean.

          Dear Professor MrPingPong,

          I am very honored to learn that I can make you laugh because this is by no means a small feat.

          I find that sometimes God has an interesting way to dispense justice.

          I, Gary K. Teng, predicted at the beginning of this 1014-2015 NBA season that on or before the Christmas day, Black Mamba would be on his way to the ash heap of junkyard, and you all know the rest of the story.

          Ever since then, I have gained ~40 pounds by nonstop pounding my chests. 🙁

          In order to ingratiate Black Mamba by kissing his axx, Julius Randle publically announced that he wanted to be Black Mamba the Second. I advised him to slow down a bit because The Great Wall is not built in one day. Even beyond my own wildest imagination, Randle fractured the tibia in his right leg on the very opening night. (I said to several of my close friends that he would break his leg in the first week of the regular season.)

          When Black Mamba was hurling the infamous and inhumanly insult at Lin by saying “Get the fxxk out of my way” during the timeout on the court side, even BS seemed to be shocked and rattled. But the one and only Xavier Henry actually walked to the Black Mamba and gave him a hi-five as a gesture of high praise and strong approval. The VERY next day in routine practice (not even during the 5-on-5 scrimmages), Henry ruptured his Achilles tendon and, to add insult to injury, he was subsequently waived by the Tankers. Given his constant struggles with health, it could be difficult for him to ever land another NBA contract.

          The list goes on and on and on….

          I hope now you know why Black Mamba is the most poisonous snake on this planet. It IS the kiss of death.

          Sorry! My Tankers grandma is complaining that she only received 11 roses from the delivery man. Oh man! I am in deep sxxt! Gotta go… 🙁

          • MrPingPong

            Dear Oracle GT:

            Somehow when I hear you talk of numbers, I can’t help but wonder what your Lakers mama has done to you…


            Forgive me for my irreverent and irrelevant thought!


          • Gary Teng

            Dear Professor MrPingPong,

            Apparently, I gave my Tankers grandma the wrong presents on this Valentine’s day.

            I should have gotten her a bottle of Love Potion No. 9. Instead, I gave her 12 roses and a bottle of Chanel No. 19.

            It seems that I do have troubles with numbers. 🙁

  • this is my first time posting my comment here, but been here almost always as i enjoy reading the article and the comments as well. let me copy here my comments from other lin fan site (i hope no violation of this forum was made by me doing this.)

    i liked what jeremy has on his mind regarding his Fans, detractors and Naysayers…as i quote from the article
    by Howard Beck:

    “Ever since Linsanity struck, there’s been no middle ground for Lin.
    He was either hyped as a savior and a star, or dismissed (often
    derisively) as a flash in the pan—”a bum that needs to be in the D-League and should never come back to the NBA,” Lin said with a chuckle.

    “There’s always been doubt around me, around my name, ever since I
    stepped foot in the NBA,” Lin said. “That’s literally all I’ve had, is
    just a huge cloud of uncertainty, doubt and in a lot of ways maybe
    polarizing criticism around me, for whatever reasons. It’s part of the

    “I’m polarizing for very interesting reasons,” Lin said. “What makes
    other athletes polarizing isn’t really what makes me polarizing, if that
    makes sense.”

    Whereas some athletes stir controversy with their brash demeanor or
    their selfish play, Lin seems to stir emotions just by taking the path
    he did, by “the way everything happened.”

    “That’s what’s polarizing,” he said. “Like, kind of out of my
    control, the way the media built me up or the way they tried to tear me
    down or whatever. There’s a lot of interesting stuff, and it just turns
    into this very polarizing, love-hate, ‘you’re-the-best,’
    ‘you’re-the-worst’ type situation.” ..

    The doubters are out there, but Lin just smiles.

    “Never say never,” he said.

    (end of quote)

    let us not forget that Jeremy is a smart and wise person..he hears and listen before saying anything, unlike others who only knew “how to speak but a bad listeners”!!

    • old & in the way

      Dear james brown:

      I remember you from if you are the same person and you probably are. Good article by Mr. Beck. I enjoyed it and he highlighted many of the issues that the non-Lin supporters choose to ignore much like trying to read a book with one’s mind and eyes closed. I agree that Jeremy is a smart and wise person. Those who criticize him harshly could never walk in his foot steps, of course. But anyone can be a critic. It takes a special person to persevere in the face of severe racial and cultural bias especially when it is being denied that such a bias even exists. I hope you post here in the future. I appreciate your positive input in abundance. Later.

    • MrPingPong

      Thanks Charlie, for the article. I’ve never heard of Tom Gardner before. He must be one of those “crazy” Lin fans! 🙂

      I just have another crazy LOF thought. I think BS and the Lakers are trying to pump up Clarkson in order to inflate his trade value. He will be used as a trading piece. Do Lakers fans really believe in this propaganda about Clarkson being the future of the Lakers?

  • MrPingPong

    Hello Lin fans/non-fans and non-Lin fans, just making conversation here…

    So Lin was shooting blanks last night against the Blazers. Lin looked completely drained out there. I hope Lin will recover from whatever has been bothering him and come back strong after the ASB. It will be the Year of The Ram by then, a new year and a new beginning! Here is Lin’s postgame interview, in case you are interested.

    Switching topic, the SAC Kings will have a new coach, coach Karl, after the ASB. I dunno much about the Kings organization, but I sure don’t like the way they treat their coaches and I agree totally with coach SVG on this matter. Check this out:

    Some of these billionaire NBA owners have no problem treating their coaches like dirt. Here is another example:

    As a LOF, I can only hope that Lin does not end up with these teams come next season. I am anxious to see how Lin will fight thru all adversities here. The tougher the challenge, the greater the triumph. May the force be with Lin!

    • While I don’t like how the Kings treated Corbin, I must admit that Karl’s offense philosophy matches JLin’s style. Fast and attacking. It makes for a possible off season destination for JLin.

      With all the injuries piling up for the Lakers, I just hope JLin makes it out in one piece. With the freedom of free agency, he can finally pick a team with a coach that matches his play style. It will most likely be backup money for a backup role, but given the right system who knows what the future may bring?

      • MrPingPong

        I like coach Karl’s style too. But – just playing the devil’s advocate here – what if coach Karl can’t turn the team around quick enough to make that impatient owner happy and gets fired half way thru the season? 😉

        And yes, Charlie, staying injury free is key for our man Lin here. Injuries can hit any player at any moment in this league. It is more than half way thru the season, and look at all the injuries that are piling up around the league. Lin said that he plays to win every time, not to tank! And we all know that he always lays it all out on both ends of the floor, sacrificing his body et al. Knock on woods!

        Take a breather and then Letzzz Gooo JL17! 🙂

        • So then JLin just has a one year deal if things sour =)

  • MrPingPong

    Hello Lin fans/non-fans and non-Lin fans:

    It’s weekend so I have some free time to loaf around on the WEB and found another very interesting article on Lin. I highly recommend it.

    This particular article has very interesting videos and links to many other insightful articles. If you are interested in stats and numbers, there is a link to a stats site that is quite impressive. Also in the comments section, there is a comment by Etane which points an article on the marginalization of Lin written by Etane himself. In case you don’t know, Etane used to frequent this site but stopped a while back.

    Have a great weekend everyone, wherever you are on this WEB!


    • old & in the way

      Dear Mr. PingPong:

      Thanks for the great link and article. I’ve read the etane article before. It’s also a good one. I like the stats, too. Patience and perseverance. In time Jeremy will find the right place to be and then all the doubters can go home and shut-up. There will be a rebirth of Linsanity in some form. It is only a matter of when. Thanks for being here, my younger brother. Some think we are irrational but nothing could be further from the truth. It is those who choose to deny reality that are the irrational ones. I embrace reality and that is why I embrace Jeremy Lin. It will happen. Have a good weekend and I shall try to do the same. Ciao for now.

    • Chirico

      Mr Pingpong,

      Thank you so much for the link. It is another great piece. It just sums it up about what JLin has been dealing with.
      Some people are easily hypnotized by colored media so they essentially looked at JLin based on a twisted perspective. nevertheless, there are many of us who just look for what want to read and believe. isn’t this is what is made of us ? The truth doesn’t hurt, it is us who seek to be hurt.

  • old & in the way

    Numbers Do Not Lie

    There are only 2 Lakers on the 2014-15 roster with an average +/- that is above zero. They are Robert Sacre at +0.23 and Jeremy Lin at +0.12. Jeremy has the highest WAR at 1.96. The two worse are Jordan Clarkson at -3.11 and Jordan Hill at -4.24. Kobe Bryant is at -2.28 and Carlos Boozer is at -2.38. Bryant and Boozer also have minus WAR’s. We can see from the fact that Byron Scott claims to be not quite as impressed by stats and data as he is by the old fashioned but unreliable “eye test” that the Lakers can not help but go astray with this kind of courtside leadership.

    • Didn’t realize Sacre is our MVP

      • old & in the way

        Dear Charlie:

        Ha-ha. That’s a tough one to swallow, isn’t it. Numbers don’t lie but maybe they stretch the truth every now and then like in this case. Although perhaps not. Maybe Sacre is doing more than the “eye test” reveals to us. Number 3 is a bit of a surprise, too, with Ron Price just barely into the minus numbers at around -0.05 or something close to that. The rest of them seemed to be about where one might expect them to be. Hill’s big minus number was almost exclusively from the defensive side. No surprise there and Boozer, too. A real big minus number on the defensive end. Gotta go. Ciao.

  • MrPingPong

    Hello Lin fans/non-fans and non-Lin fans:

    Since our Philosopher mentions this mysterious thing called Reticular Activation System, I figure we all need some distraction during this ASB. Check this out:

    We are so easily fooled, aren’t we? (-:

  • MrPingPong

    Another distraction perhaps! 😉

    • Gary Teng

      Dear Professor MrPingPong,

      We are so easily fooled, aren’t we?

      Please just speak for yourself. (Just kidding.) 🙂

      I read several articles mentioning that Nash is tutoring Clarkson in private. If this news is true, it means that the Tankers has decided not to keep Lin after this NBA season ends.

      Anyway, I feel sorry for the Tankers because it is investing on the wrong player. Clarkson is basically incorrigible.

      • old & in the way

        Yo’ Guys:

        Every decision the Tankers make is the wrong one. Clarkson over Lin is another joke and the list of players that various teams have preferred over Lin grows by one more talentless stiff. That the Tankers think Clarkson is preferable to Lin is comparable to thinking BS is a better idea than MDA. The Tankers are as pathetic as the Warriors were when Keith Smart was their coach and he chose Acie Law over Jeremy Lin. Does this nonsense never end? A rhetorical question for sure. No answer is required as I already know the answer. It shall never end but I do grow weary of the consistent tomfoolery among NBA coaches. You can fool the fools almost every time apparently. Gotta go. Ciao.

  • Chirico

    It is easy to abandon a character who used to be on everyone’s mind for one’s achievement , it is not easy to keep that appreciation when such phenom appears to fade away. JLin is not a NBA super star, his is much more than that. A legend.

  • MrPingPong

    For the brave and the uninhibited: